Podcast: It’s See You Later, Not Goodbye




All good things must come to an end. And today is one of those days. In this episode of The Not Crazy Podcast, we say a sad farewell to our amazing cohost, Jackie Zimmerman. Tune in, as Jackie and Gabe reminisce about the good old days, ponder the fate of podcasts, and discuss Jackie’s decision to leave. They also introduce you to Gabe’s new cohost, Lisa, who just happens to be his ex-wife. Yep! You heard that right! Will this divorced duo be an absolute train wreck (as most divorced cohosts would be) or an inspiration to all? You’ll have to stick around to find out.


Join us for a sweet farewell to Jackie and a warm welcome to Lisa. We also give instructions on how you can sign up to hear the upcoming podcast called Not Crazy 2.0.

(Transcript Available Below)

About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Podcast: It’s See You Later, Not Goodbye 1

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations, available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from Gabe Howard. To learn more, please visit his website, gabehoward.com.





Podcast: It’s See You Later, Not Goodbye 2

Jackie Zimmerman has been in the patient advocacy game for over a decade and has established herself as an authority on chronic illness, patient-centric healthcare, and patient community building. She lives with multiple sclerosis, ulcerative colitis, and depression.

You can find her online at JackieZimmerman.co, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn.



Computer Generated Transcript for “Jackie’s FinaleEpisode

Editor’s NotePlease be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a Psych Central podcast. And here are your hosts, Jackie Zimmerman and Gabe Howard.

Gabe: Welcome, Not Crazy fans. I would like to introduce my co-host, Jackie.

Jackie: And my co-host, Gabe.

Gabe: And we have some sad and, you know, Jackie, we have good news and bad news. Which do you want first?

Jackie: We have like a shit sandwich, right?

Gabe: Right. Well, except that no, no, we don’t have a shit sandwich. Well, I don’t even understand what that means.

Jackie: Isn’t it like two pieces of bread with like shit in the middle, so like two good things surrounded by shit?

Gabe: Is this a millennial thing?

Jackie: I know this was a derby thing anyway. We have good news and also some bad news.

Gabe: I asked you a simple question, do you want the good news or the bad news?

Jackie: Good news.

Gabe: The good news is the show is going to continue. You have to go over to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy and re-subscribe as Not Crazy 2.0 is rising from the ashes of, and now we’re getting into the bad news.

Jackie: This is my last episode. Wah, wah.

Gabe: Jackie is leaving. I feel like all of my co-hosts leave me.

Jackie: Maybe it’s you.

Gabe: I mean, I am the only constant. Even the name has changed. I can’t even blame it on the name. I just I don’t know what’s happening.

Jackie: Super sad.

Gabe: Ok. Look, I recognize that everything is on a spectrum except for maybe spectrums. Are spectrums on a spectrum?

Jackie: I have no idea, this is, but this is not sad. Can we talk about what’s allegedly said?

Gabe: Oh, what is allegedly sad is America’s lack of knowledge about the basics of science, which has probably gotten us into this entire COVID-19 debacle.

Jackie: Yeah.

Gabe: But also Jackie is leaving us.

Jackie: Well, when you say it like that, it sounds sad.

Gabe: See, everything’s on a spectrum. I feel like we need to give context in a way that we generally don’t on the show. Right?

Jackie: Yes. Yes,

Gabe: Yes.

Jackie: I agree.

Gabe: Ok.

Jackie: Yeah.

Gabe: If you go back and you listen to the great episode that came out after Christmas where I said, hey, Jackie, how was your Christmas, going to let you in on a little secret. We recorded that in November. So Christmas hadn’t happened yet. So Jackie had to guess that she had a good Christmas. In fairness, I love I’m blaming you. You asked me how my Christmas was and

Jackie: Right.

Gabe: I had to guess as well.

Jackie: You, lied.

Gabe: Yeah.

Jackie: You didn’t know.

Gabe: Yeah. I mean, our predictions were very good. We said we had a good Christmas. And hey, lo and behold, we had a good Christmas. All the people who I said annoyed me. They did, in fact, annoy me. So this is going to air in like the middle of May, but it’s actually the middle of April. We’re still under quarantine. I’m in Ohio, which is shelter in place. Jackie is in Michigan, which is shelter in place. And everybody hates her governor. And there’s riots on the streets, except they’re wearing the masks. So it’s really like a cognitive distortion of the highest order where

Jackie: It’s just.

Gabe: The virus is both fake, but they still wear a mask to protect themselves from it. So it’s weird. That’s what’s happening as we’re recording this.

Jackie: Do you remember the movie Idiocracy? Right, everybody, right. Here’s the thing, though. This is worse than Idiocracy. We watched that movie and we were like, ha ha, that’s a stupid. People are so dumb. Whenever anybody does something dumb, we call it Idiocracy. But like, this is like if Idiocracy was like times ten is what these people are doing. Anyway, I digress.

Gabe: But we’re bringing this up because we can’t predict the future.

Jackie: Right.

Gabe: You know, normally we can. You know, how’s your summer going, Jackie? How were your holidays? And. You know, we touch on the basics because we know that there’s a four week lead time, but there’s a four week lead time. So, yeah, I don’t I’m going to pretend the quarantine is over and that neither Jackie or I have corona and that we’re safe and healthy and that I’m back to sitting in McDonald’s because I’m trying to have, for the first time in my bipolar life, an optimistic outlook.

Jackie: Solid.

Gabe: Jackie, where do you think we’ll be in a month?

Jackie: Well, my hope is that that my business is still doing really well because that’s one of the contributing factors here, too, is I am one of the fortunate people in this time who’s actually doing very, very well. I’m super busy and I hope that that continues. So a month from now, I hope I’m just, you know, rolling in the dough like a Quentin Tarantino movie minus the murdery parts, but just the money parts.

Gabe: The murdery parts, I think, are the coronavirus.

Jackie: Yeah, yeah. So I don’t want

Gabe: I mean.

Jackie: Those parts.

Gabe: It’s we don’t want those parts. Yeah.

Jackie: I just want the money parts and the busy parts and the like maybe. I don’t know. I don’t even want to say that I hope that we’re out of our houses in a month because I can’t confidently say that I think that that’s a good idea. So I just hope that I’m still in business making money. That’s what I’m going to say.

Gabe: The coronavirus impacted a lot of things in ways that we just can’t even imagine. Obviously our ability to travel around the country, book speaking engagements is, I use the word decimated, which I have been told is just a very extreme word for postponed. But I feel like it’s been decimated. I feel like the thing that you know what it is, Jackie, this isn’t just my job. It’s my purpose. I do make money off of it. It’s how I eat. It’s how I buy nice things. It’s how I go on vacation. But the reason that I do this is because it’s my thing. It’s my purpose. So, yeah, the money is gone for me, but the the purpose is gone. And yes, yes, I believe that it will come back, but it’s necessitated just just an incredible number of changes in just in the way things work. You know, podcast traffic, surprisingly and shockingly or maybe not surprisingly and not shockingly is down. It’s down a lot. The way that people consume podcasts is a somewhat unique.

Jackie: I find this whole point that you’re about to make to be incredibly interesting because you have proclaimed that you do not listen to podcasts, so you predicting podcast behavior is bizarre.

Gabe: I’m explaining poorly, Jackie. You are correct. I am looking at stats and I subscribe to a tracking service as most high end podcasts do that look at trends across the industry. And across the industry, podcast traffic is down because of the way people interact with podcasts. Podcasts are a very intimate medium, but even though they’re a very intimate medium. People still want to be driving to work. They still want to be going to the gym. They still want to be cleaning their house. Most people are not sitting perfectly still listening to the show and doing nothing else. They’re listening while they do something else.

Jackie: Yeah.

Gabe: That’s that. But people aren’t doing a lot of other things right now. Even the people who are stuck at home, they can’t listen to a podcast because their kids are underfoot or their spouses are underfoot or their roommates are underfoot. Or like me, they’ve just given up and decided to stop cleaning.

Jackie: Underfoot, Grandpa Gabe. Underfoot, really?

Gabe: What would you say? You correct that sentence in cool Aunt Jackie speak.

Jackie: Their kids are annoying, their spouses are annoying. They’re in the way. They’re the worst. That’s

Gabe: Oh, my. Oh, my.

Jackie: Ok, but I do listen to podcasts a lot. And when we were talking about kind of watching the numbers and seeing them kind of dip a bit, I realize I’m not listening to podcasts. I’m definitely. I don’t even commute to work anymore. But when I did, I listened to a lot of podcasts on my commute. I listen to a lot of podcasts when I drive to the doctor or wherever I’m going. And, you know, sometimes like here and there when I’m cooking, but I’m not doing any of that anymore. One, Adam is home all the time. So he cooks everything because I’m very lucky and I’m not driving anywhere. And even if I am right now, like, I don’t really want to listen to a podcast. You know, like it. This is what we talk about all the time now is what’s happening in the world. And I’m living it every day. So I don’t necessarily want to talk about it anymore than I already have to.

Gabe: And just like our podcast did a lot of shows on corona, on quarantine, on anxiety, on our feelings, on the mental health surrounding it. It’s hard to produce this content in a timely manner. As we said, it’s about four weeks from recording to airing. In a perfect world, you can get that number down. If you spend, you know, more time, more money. But like anything, once you start rushing things, well, you start rushing things.

Jackie: Mm hmm.

Gabe: It’s fascinating to me, Jackie, because so many people are like, wow, I don’t know why it’s so hard. You just record like a half an hour a week, right? Your podcast is a half an hour time commitment, right?

Jackie: LOL.

Gabe: Look. Yeah. Yeah. One, no, just going to hard stop that right there. No.

Jackie: For what it’s worth, we’ve officially been recording for 12 and a half minutes. But we have been on the call for over an hour.

Gabe: Right. And that’s the time we spend together. So usually there’s 45 minutes to an hour before we start recording. Then there’s the recording time. But before that, there’s the e-mails back and forth. What’s this week’s topic going to be? And then once we land on a topic which, you know, texts, e-mails, maybe a conversation, etc., then we both go our separate ways. And obviously, since we’re doing a farewell episode and talking about, hey, you know, I’m gonna miss you, Jackie.

Jackie: Oh, well that’s cute.

Gabe: Notice she didn’t say, I’m going to miss you, Gabe.

Jackie: I.

Gabe: I just. Why? Why? Why do my co-hosts hate me?

Jackie: False. Your co-hosts do not hate. I mean, I as the only co-host I can actively speak for, which is myself. I do not hate you at all. And I will miss recording this podcast. I do enjoy doing it. It’s a boatload of work. Like we just talked about. But I do like doing it. It’s something that’s fun to do. But it’s not. It’s not all the glamorous-ness that everybody thinks it is. You know, it’s there’s a lot of back end work that goes into making this thing come out for 30 minutes every week.

Gabe: And before coronavirus, that work was paying off. It was trending in that direction. The numbers were fantastic. The emails were fantastic. The bookings were fantastic. You know, we launched the Psych Central Podcast Live campaign like two weeks before the shit hit the fan.

Jackie: Of course we did.

Gabe: Did you guys remember that?

Jackie: Of course we did.

Gabe: Did anybody know that there was a, there’s a whole Web site and there was a public relations campaign and all of that time and energy is going to have to be duplicated, repeated, repackaged at some point in the future. And that point is probably a year from now. And I’m not trying to throw you under the bus, Jackie, but the Not Crazy 2.0, I’m still going to be on and you’re not, so Jackie jumped ship. She just she left. She’s like, oh, my God, I can’t put another year into the build up because she has another business. She has other things to do. And, you know, in this way, we everybody is focusing on COVID-19 in the worst possible light. And death is very, very scary. I’m not minimizing that in any way, but I don’t think people are talking about some of the secondary effects. You know, things like people losing the businesses that they’ve built up for a long, long time. Some people their entire lives. They’re not talking about people who miss their senior year of high school. And I understand that compared to death, this isn’t that big of a deal because, yeah, I would miss my senior year of high school to bring back any member of my family for five minutes. For five minutes. Yes. But this still does represent a loss. And this is one of those losses.

Jackie: Yeah, it is. And to your point of businesses going under. And, you know, let’s say really fun hobbies that are also kind of like a business kind of going under. That’s why right now, like, I can’t slow in my business, you know, like I can’t say that we’re gonna, we’re gonna work to rebuild this up because I have business. So I have to make sure that I’m like putting everything into it, because not everybody has that right now. And I want to make sure that I can hold on to that as long as I can, because small businesses are just dwindling every day and I don’t want to be one of them.

Gabe: You know what I’m most sad about? Adam never wrote us a rap song.

Jackie: Adam is a retired rapper, Gabe. He’s retired.

Gabe: Listen. I am 43 years old. And would you like the list of all of the musical people who have retired and went on a farewell tour that then came back again? I have been to KISS farewell tour like six times.

Jackie: Yeah. But they’re bad. And Adam is really good. So.

Gabe: See that, so he is primed. He had, remember when Michael Jordan retired? Michael Jordan came back. I’m just sayin.

Jackie: Yeah.

Gabe: I’m just sayin.

Jackie: Well.

Gabe: Do you want a podcast now and release the episode on time? [singing]

Jackie: Yeah. I mean, you could write it. Why don’t you write it? You could be a rapper.

Gabe: No. Don’t say that anybody can be a rapper.

Jackie: I didn’t.

Gabe: That’s like how everybody thinks that they can be a podcaster right now.

Jackie: I did not say anybody could be a rapper. I said, you already have a beat and a song. And so you could rewrite it. But, you know, this is digressing quite a bit.

Gabe: Because I’m all about that cast, about that cast. [singing]

Jackie: The cast?

Gabe: Yeah, because it’s like base. I don’t know what to put for treble? Like no static? I’m all about that cast, about that cast.

Jackie: Ok, maybe you can’t be a rapper because that was, oof, that was pretty bad. Anyway.

Gabe: Well, this is, this is getting. This is getting bad.

Jackie: So the point that you were.

Gabe: I’ve lost my co-host. The whole world is quarantined, maybe. Or maybe it’s over. I don’t know. I don’t know where we are going to be in the future.

Jackie: The point you’re trying.

Gabe: Maybe aliens have landed?

Jackie: The point you’re trying to make is that while I will be running my little tail off, trying to be a business person, the show will go on.

Gabe: We’ll be right back after these messages.

Announcer: Interested in learning about psychology and mental health from experts in the field? Give a listen to the Psych Central Podcast, hosted by Gabe Howard. Visit PsychCentral.com/Show or subscribe to The Psych Central Podcast on your favorite podcast player.

Announcer: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.com. Secure, convenient, and affordable online counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Anything you share is confidential. Schedule secure video or phone sessions, plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it’s needed. A month of online therapy often costs less than a single traditional face to face session. Go to BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral and experience seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you. BetterHelp.com/PsychCentral.

Jackie: We are back for my last episode and discussing Not Crazy 2.0.

Gabe: The show is, what do kids call it? Rebooting? It’s rebooting as Not Crazy 2.0. The same title, same general theme. It is moving feeds. You have to go over to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy and re subscribe on the new i-Tunes feed and the new Spotify feed. Well, just all the new feeds.

Jackie: All the feeds.

Gabe: It’s very, very important that if you think that you are going to hear Gabe and his new co-host on this feed, you’re not. So, please, please, please head over to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy and click all the little buttons to sign up on whatever podcast player you have been subscribing to. But, Jackie, do you want to introduce the new. I mean, she’s not here,

Jackie: No.

Gabe: But she is well known to the show.

Jackie: I feel like the best way to introduce her is just to say this, sorry, Lisa. Sorry. Sorry, Lisa.

Gabe: Yeah, like so many wait, like we’ve been apologizing to Lisa since the beginning of the show and we thought it was for like all the edits and post-work that she was going to have to do. But it turns out that you’re apologizing for dumping her on a show with her ex-husband after you left.

Jackie: Well, OK, so for those who don’t know what we’re talking about, Lisa is our editor. She also just happens to be Gabe’s ex wife, who he somehow maintains a very solid friendship with. So when we screw up, which happens all the time, there are recordings of us saying, sorry, Lisa. I think she’s used them as outtakes. But Lisa is going to fill in this role. And I actually think this is going to be really great, because not only does Lisa have the perspective of living with mental illness, but she’s also been a really amazing care partner. Right? She’s watched you go through the depths of being bipolar. She’s super educated. She’s very involved in the mental illness community. Lisa has a very unique perspective and.

Gabe: And she’s mean. She’s super mean,

Jackie: Well, and she kind of.

Gabe: Like you’re trying to avoid it. She’s super mean.

Jackie: Eh, she love hates you a little bit, but like, I mean, she’s super mean. No, she’s not. I don’t think Lisa’s super mean.

Gabe: We’re codependent, we’re codependent as hell.

Jackie: Yes.

Gabe: Remember when you first met Lisa and you said, you know, Gabe, I think that you and Lisa might be a little bit codependent. And I said, you think? You think? You know, I thought you were smarter, Jackie. We are totally codependent. And the fact that you can’t figure that out really makes me think less of you. Do you remember that conversation? It was at Roosters when we were watching UFC.

Jackie: Oh, I actually totally don’t remember that conversation. But I mean, like.

Gabe: It was an awesome conversation. We laugh about it every day.

Jackie: I can confirm that you are definitely codependent, so look forward to episodes about that in the future.

Gabe: We are both happily remarried to other people and there’s

Jackie: Well.

Gabe: Nobody would bat an eye at the friendship that Lisa and I have  if she was male, if we were the same sex. So it’s interesting. I don’t think that our friendship could exist 40 years ago. So it’s cool.

Jackie: Well.

Gabe: It’s cool that in 2020 you can be friends with members of the opposite sex because it really did give way for us to find where we actually belong because we don’t belong as a married couple.

Jackie: Well, and I will say that when I first found out that Lisa, who I only knew as our editor, who I only knew through emailing at the time, was your ex-wife, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I need the story on this. What? Come again one more time. And you told me what happened. And I was like, no, no, no. But like, you guys are still friends. OK. So your wife must hate her, right? And she doesn’t. Like well, her husband must totally hate you. And he doesn’t. So then I was like, OK, but like, that’s just what you say. And then I saw you guys all in person. And it’s true. There’s no, like, weirdness. There’s no like kind of like bitchy side eyes. Like you guys are all just buddies. And it is so bizarre, but also very cool.

Gabe: I think one of the perspectives that Lisa will bring, aside from her own perspective. I mean, I do not want to discount that Lisa is her own person, has her own perspective, and she can hold her own in an argument, discussion, debate with anybody in the world. It’s one of the cool and awful things about Lisa. So I don’t want to make Lisa all about Gabe. I want to be very, very clear that Lisa is her own person with her own thoughts and opinions. But Lisa has also known me for 20 years. And I know that Lisa, as my editor, she’s listened to hundreds of shows, podcasts, videos and things that I’ve made because she edits them all to make me sound just fantastic. And the number of emails that I get from her where she’s like, hey, Jackie asked you what your favorite color was and you said, purple, you know, that’s not true. You like red. And you told me that you like red. Do you remember that when red happened and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it’s interesting because she’s known me for so long that it’s fascinating how often she calls me out on my bullshit, not because she suspects it, but because she was there when it happened. And she remembers it from her perspective. And I remember it from my perspective. And I think it’s going to make for some very unique conversations. Jackie was not there when I went to the psychiatric hospital. So just imagine that conversation with instead of Jackie asking me how I felt if the person asking me the questions was there. I’m kind of excited for that because I can only see things through the eyes of somebody who is in crisis with bipolar disorder. Lisa sees that whole story through the eyes of the person who tricked me to get in a car and save my life.

Jackie: Well.

Gabe: That’s a very different perspective.

Jackie: And Lisa’s perspective and her experience is one that one no one who knows you has ever heard. Right? Like it’s not like you throw her up on a stage and you’re like, Lisa, tell me what that was like. And also, it’s not one we hear a lot in general, you know, we hear about care partners. A lot of times, though, it’s parents of children. We don’t often hear a lot about what happens when you have to go. OK. This is not going well. And you’re right. How do I trick him into getting care? I, for one, am fascinated and cannot wait to hear that.

Gabe: We are sincerely hoping that this provides a unique voice in this space. And you’re right. We see a lot of, you know, mom and dad, husband and wife, parent and child, extended family. You see like sibling teams. I can’t think of a single ex husband and ex wife mental health team, because usually when the divorce happens, when the breakup happens, the hurt feelings are so tremendous, there’s nothing to salvage. And there’s a ton of hurt feelings. Those are gonna be my favorite shows, all the hurt feelings. But usually those people can’t work together, so they end up telling the story away from each other. I would tell the story about my ex spouse who left me and she would tell the story about her mentally ill ex spouse who screwed it all up and we couldn’t interact. I’m just saying, generally speaking, people who break up don’t rehash their relationships publicly.

Jackie: No.

Gabe: And if they do rehash them publicly, not in a healthy way.

Jackie: No. No. And they definitely don’t do it like, you know, for less than a billion dollars on a reality TV show.

Gabe: So listen up, reality TV show hosts, for a billion dollars, I would do The Amazing Race. I mean.

Jackie: I mean, the reality is nobody’s getting paid a billion dollars on reality TV. They get like six hundred dollars an episode.

Gabe: Wait, what? They get $600 an episode? That’s a lot.

Jackie: I think they get like between six and whatever, it doesn’t matter. That’s off the point. The point is.

Gabe: Wow. That’s not, that’s not podcast money, that’s good money.

Jackie: Lisa’s gonna be the new co-host. She’s Gabe’s ex-wife. She knows a lot about mental illness. And I think that it’s gonna be a great show.

Gabe: Jackie, obviously I agree that Lisa and I are going to work well together, and it’s we’ve reached the point in our relationship where we can do it. We’ve obviously worked on the podcast with Lisa behind the scenes for a number of years. I think people would really be surprised at how long Lisa has been around. This is the first time she asked to be on the microphone. So I don’t know what changed in her life, but hey, she’s getting braver or she’s just got like a lot of trauma that she wants to air publicly. And I’m about to, I’m about to hit a firestorm of awful. But either way, I think it’s going to be fun. But listen, you need to go to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy and re subscribe to all the new feeds. PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. Jackie. I am going to miss the hell out of you. I only have one question left. It’s sort of become a tradition whenever one of my co-hosts leaves me to ask this question, which is why we put it all the way at the end. But before I ask, do you have anything to say? What do you want to say to the listeners?

Jackie: Honestly, it’s really hard to come up with something like poignant and awesome on the spot to say to people who are important to you and our listeners are important to me. So I don’t have like a very eloquent, like, here’s my parting wishes for all of you. Instead, I’ll say I’m still online everywhere, all the places, my Web site is JackieZimmerman.co. I have all the social things. You can find me everywhere if you ever need like a Web site or an email campaign. Like, I could totally do that for you, too. I don’t know. I think our listeners are great. We’ve gotten a lot of really great emails and feedback and well-wishes and and me too’s. And that’s been a really, really cool thing from being a part of this podcast.

Gabe: Obviously, you can go to Jackie’s Web site. JackieZimmerman.co to email her. You can also e-mail to show@PsychCentral.com and we will forward it over. So I promise that any nice thing that you say to Jackie, she will get. Jackie, I have one more question.

Jackie: Hit me.

Gabe: What advice do you have for my new co-host?

Jackie: I think that it would be impossible and maybe downright irresponsible for me to try to give a person who’s known you for 20 years, who’s been married to you and has like supported you through your whole life, any advice about working with you. She knows everything. I got nothing that she doesn’t already know.

Gabe: She knows everything, that’s like super scary. Like I’m, as you said that, I was like, does she know everything? And then I thought, wow, she knows like my banking passwords.

Jackie: [Laughter]

Gabe: She’s the person that if I die, is going to come clear my browser history. I mean, she has a very important role.

Jackie: The only advice that I would give to Lisa is that when you’re recording, don’t hit your desk because Lisa gets really pissed off about that when she’s editing the podcast.

Gabe: What are what are the things that she, she hits us up every week. Don’t hit your desk. Don’t smack your mic. You’re getting better on verbal crutches or you’re getting worse on verbal crutches.

Jackie: Your sniffling is too much.

Gabe: Remember when we both had the cough? I thought she was going to quit that week. That was it. I think this is gonna be great. But remember, you’re not going to hear any of it if you don’t go to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy and sign up for the new feed. Jackie, first off, will you come back? I mean, you’re going to come back as a guest from time to time, right? There’s gonna be something that you want to talk about and you will come and debate it with us because you’re not dying. You’re just, you’re just busy.

Jackie: But of course, yes.

Gabe: Excellent. What you have a standing invitation to be on Not Crazy 2.0 whenever you want to come back. So I hope you will be here. My final question, and I know I promised the other question was final, but I just, I just have to know. I’ve wondered really since we started working together. The blue hair. Is that your natural hair color? Or do you dye?

Jackie: Wow. Well, in case you can’t tell, we have been quarantined for well over a month now. And the roots are not blue, so no.

Gabe: Jackie, that’s awesome. All right, listen up, everybody. Here’s what I need you to do. I need you to go over to PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. There’ll be a whole bunch of buttons there to sign up for the new feeds. Not Crazy. 2.0 is gonna be awesome. Lisa’s gonna be there. I’m going to be there. We’re gonna do really, really, really, really, really cool things. But of course, you won’t hear any of it if you don’t subscribe over on PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. We’ll see everybody in the brave new world. I hope you all are doing OK.

Jackie: So long and farewell,

Gabe: I like that.

Jackie: I’m so good at this now.

Gabe: Aww, that sucks, just when we got it.

Announcer: You’ve been listening to Not Crazy from Psych Central. For free mental health resources and online support groups, visit PsychCentral.com. Not Crazy’s official website is PsychCentral.com/NotCrazy. To work with Gabe, go to gabehoward.com. To work with Jackie, go to JackieZimmerman.co. Not Crazy travels well. Have Gabe and Jackie record an episode live at your next event. E-mail show@psychcentral.com for details.